Listen Coven, the interview you’re about to hear explores the story of a Sixties Scoop survivor, Elaine Kicknowsway, who took her pain and, with her friend Roxi Cardinal, transformed it into The Sixties Scoop Network, a safe place for herself and other survivors to share stories and heal together. It’s a very small organization, so if you’re looking to make a really huge impact with your reparation donation this year, please consider supporting the Sixties Scoop Network. We talk about grief, language, and coming home. Elaine says, what is needed is "aftercare for loss." Trust me, every dollar that goes to Elaine and Roxi’s work will be noticed, appreciated and used to help people who have suffered the violence of colonialism first hand. As their website says, "Turn Reconciliation into Action" - go to sixtiesscoopnetwork.org/donate and your donation will directly contribute to healing, cultural continuity, and breaking cycles of intergenerational trauma. https://sixtiesscoopnetwork.org/donate
www.missingwitches.com/ep-297-turn-reconciliation-into-action-with-elaine-kicknosway-mwrf2026-part-3
Amy T.: The interview you're about to hear explores the story of a Sixties Scoop survivor, Elaine Kicknosway, who took her pain and, with her friend Roxi Cardinal, transformed it into the Sixties Scoop Network, a safe place for herself and other survivors to share stories and heal together. It's a very small organization, so if you're looking to make a really huge impact with your reparation donation this year, please consider supporting the Sixties Scoop Network.
Trust me, every dollar that goes to Elaine and Roxy's work will be noticed, appreciated, and used to help people who have suffered the violence of colonialism firsthand. As their website says, "Turn reconciliation into action." Go to sixtiesscoopnetwork.org/donate, and your donation will directly contribute to healing, cultural continuity, and breaking cycles of intergenerational trauma.
That's sixtiesscoopnetwork.org.
Intro: You aren't being a proper woman, therefore you must be a witch. Be a witch. Be a witch. Be a witch. Be a witch. Be a witch. You must be a witch.
Amy T.: Thank you so much, Elaine, for joining me/joining us today. It's so important for us to be in conversation and have documents of the voices of people like you who experienced things that we talk about, that we've read about, but firsthand.
So thank you again so much for being such an incredible elder to your community and to the world at large. Um, for our listeners who, who missed you on the podcast last year, can you give us a little bit of info about who you are, your story, your background?
Elaine: Um, yeah. So, Elaine Dishni kaas, I'm known as Elaine.
Uh, I am Wolf clan. Uh, I come from Pelican Narrows, uh, Descha<|ig|>mbeau through my grandmothers and my grandfather. Um, Amisk Lake through my grandma, or through my mom and my siblings. And then on my dad's side, I'm from Buffalo Narrows. So I'm a, a little bit of, uh, Northern Saskatchewan, as they say, or Treaty 6.
And I've been, um, kind of, uh, hanging out in this region, this Ottawa Algonquin territory region since I was brought here when I was 14. But I wanna, um, just mention I'm more of an older than an elder. Um, I thank you for the compliment. Yes. But I'm, I'm, I'm- Not interchangeable, these words ... I'm, I'm, I'm just, I'm just getting older.
I, I, I, I, I remember I asked, uh, an elder who I thought was an elder, and they were like, "No, no, no, I'm not an elder." And then they told me to go talk to somebody, and I went to that person, and they were like, "No, no, no, I'm not an elder." And then they, they suggest I go talk to another person and, but then I found out that that person had died, and I was like, "Well, I'm still left wondering, what is an elder?"
And I, I just know a little bit of stuff. I don't know, like, you know, as we were talking before, real fancy stuff. But, like, I, I know some stuff, but I wouldn't, uh, clarify I'm an elder 'cause that's a, that's a community conversation related to, um, being recognized by your communities. And I, I'm recognized in my communities at different things, of, of helper, as, uh, one who, uh, drives a truck and puts everything in it and puts people in it and makes their way there.
I, I like doing stuff. And, um, I like going to places and visiting, and the importance of visiting, and really, uh, really making connections. So I guess that's a little bit about me. I'm Cree. I'm Swampy Cree. And, uh, my grandpa was Métis, uh, through, uh, the, the, the paperwork, as they say in Saskatchewan. I'm sibling of, uh, 13 On my biological side, and I'm sibling of four on my adopted side.
I don't really have a, a strong connection to my adopted side, uh, through choice. Um, but I have a lot of choice in my community of the Ottawa region, but also the many nations, uh, that I go visit and, uh, I choose as my chosen family. And a lot of, uh, healing and building community and, uh, ceremony families.
And so it's a, it's a variety, right? It's such a variety. And then, uh, with chosen family becomes, uh, chosen, uh, siblings, chosen sisters, and I have my biological sister. I have a adopted sister I'm still in connection with, but, uh, there's always that place of realigning, like who am I and who's in there, and where am I from, and where am I going,
Intro: you know?
Amy T.: Yes. And I imagine for you it's even more poignant because of the '60s scoop. But before I ask you to talk about that, I, I want to return to this concept of, um, you making that distinguish, that, you making that distinction between you being older and being- Mm-hmm ... an elder. Yeah. Um, I think it's very important to note that just because someone is older does not make them an elder, but how does one then become an elder?
Is ... I know you say th- these people are, are designated by their community, not by themselves.
Intro: Yeah, yeah,
Amy T.: yeah. And is this something that, that happens in, like, a, a structured manner? Is it just a casual designation?
Elaine: Well, sometimes, like, um, like I've seen it in this region once before by a late elder from Birch Island, and they had, uh, recognized their chosen sister.
And so there was a community feast, a community gathering, and we just thought it was, like, a spring gathering of feasting the season. And then they got up there, and they were like, "I wanted to recognize my sis- my sibling, my sister, and I want the community to be aware she is an elder now." And so that was really nice to witness.
Um, and sometimes there's different, uh, community, um, connections that will elevate you, you know. Um, but there's no formal, like, paperwork or application. Um, you sel- you certainly can't self-proclaim yourself. Like, that's that other conversation. Like, it's really important that the community elevates you.
Uh, that, uh, that they say, you know, "You're a good choice. You're a good role model, and, uh, we know that you, you're human and you make mistakes, and you might yell if you spill something by accident, you know, or, you know, um, but you're a good role model, and, and we see that consistently, and you're in good standing."
You know, like, if your behavior has been called out, uh, maybe a few years ago because there was something concerning, and you've, you've altered it and changed it and made amends, and now you're, uh, reciprocating, uh, that back to whatever and whoever. Um, so it, it's, it's that cons- constant, uh, community care of conversation.
And, and, you know, not just showing up and, and, and taking what they say the perception of limelight. Um, it's really important to, to constantly be there at, um, not so great times and, and, you know, be, be helpful, be consistent, and be, um, be part of the, the root systems, you know? Like, there's, there's, uh, in root systems, it's un- um, it's not loud.
It's very quiet work. And, uh, you can't just, uh, show up because there's the camera or the photographs or whatever. It's doing the work and, and holding your own work at the same time, um, so that, uh, s- so that you're in, um, an awareness that, uh, that you don't completely see yet. There's a good standing and, and, you know, that's why you have hope for yourself.
Like, you know, sometimes you get into a low or a lull, but we have hope for ourselves, you know? And, and, uh, but I, I never wanna, uh, say, "Okay, when I'm this age, that's what I'm gonna become," you know? Sure, set goals for yourself, you know. Like, you know, walk that block or walk that mile or whatever it is, you know.
Um, but it's never to be accoladed. It's never to be, you know, just because I'm there means that you have to do that because that's what I'm telling you I want.
Amy T.: That this real level of community care and engagement can't be performed.
Elaine: No. No, it cannot be performative. Yeah. Um, uh, because many of us, um, whatever trauma, abuse, uh, neglect, emotional neglect, if we see a sign of, um, or an inkling of, of, uh, not real, we'll know it.
Intro: Mm. And,
Elaine: and, uh, abuse survivors or, um, those of, of, uh, emotional neglect that have been really working on themselves, um, not seeing the authentic, the authentic, and usually there's little nuances, right? And that c- that goes back to the, um, the consistency and the patterning, and we're really, we're really aware of each other's patterning.
And sometimes it's like, "Oh, why do I feel so close to that person?" And there's a patterning there, and sometimes, you know, it's really calling in, um, to, to say, "I don't recognize that pattern, but there's a warmth there." Like I remember one time I went up north and, um, I just couldn't stop looking at this beautiful lady, and then it dawned on me, she looks exactly like my older sister.
And so I went up to her, I didn't know her, and I was like, "I just wanna give you a hug. Is that okay?" You know, consent, right? And she said, "Yeah." And, and the way she hugged me was, like, similar to home, you know? 'Cause it's always that place of what is home, and what does... what do you invite in? What is it that you serves you or what is it that's serving within your home of beauty and kindness and safety?
And, um, and trying to emerge that. Because of these different places of neglect and hypervigilance, and abuse, and trauma, and aftercare, and even having debriefing, like, really good debriefing sessions with, uh, people that know what they're doing 'cause you can, you c- sometimes you're debriefing and you're like, "Ah, I don't know if you'll get this."
Amy T.: Yeah. And not everybody is gonna understand, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So what, when someone comes up to you who knows nothing about the Sixties Scoop, maybe they're young or just uninformed, how do you tell them what it was with the gravity that it deserves, but brief enough that they'll, that they'll understand?
Elaine: Yeah. A lot of times I will, um, talk about intergenerational. So there's these different intergenerational moments, and a lot are related to indigenous or, or Inuit or, um, Metis childhood. Later on, Metis childhood. So within indigenous and Inuit, Metis, um, childhood, there was a concept of, of, um, forced relocation, um, uh, segregation, um, uh, nutritional, um, depravity, and some of that started in residential school, some of that started in the forced relocation, some of that started in the reserve or pass system.
And then there was an introduction called child welfare. So if you're going along in these different eras of times of childhood, um, child welfare has been involved in our i- in, in our community since the 1950s, and back then they were called the policy babies. It was just the beginning when child welfare was becoming, um, more adapt to a specific nation on, in, within the Canadian country or the state, because it, it's all run by the state and the provinces and then the regions.
But when you're explaining Sixties Scoop, it's like this whole, um, thing of, like, the front end loader scooping these kids, like purposefully scooping these kids out of their territories and away from their family, away from language, away from what they knew as safety. And they always have this concept, "Oh, it only happened when they were babies."
But it didn't. It happened when we were two, four, seven, 10, 12, right? And, and back then, this mass apprehension- It was legally, um, allowed. And so I was adopted and, and, um, in the foster care system through the AIM program, the Adopt an Indian and Métis program. So I always, I always share, Google that. They're- we're, we're 2026.
Lot of it is, if you didn't know, we're all at this level of, "But now you know." You know a little bit, so Google it. Do some of your own homework so it doesn't always extract from us to do the work for you. So when we're, when we're talking about the AIM program that I was under, but they were everywhere.
There was, like, these different child apprehension, uh, adoption, and agencies, and legal, and, uh, d- all these different, uh, places of social workers. And usually the social workers were white social workers, or non-Indigenous, non- not involved to involve the, uh, systematic, um, assumptions that, um, Indigenous families were somehow not fit.
We were not fit. So there's a narration of there's something wrong if you were an Indigenous parent. You weren't fit enough. But they're not talking about the impoverishment. They're not talking about the, the housing situation. They're not talking about the forced relocation or the lack of nutrition or the pass system that would allow people to go get different jobs off reserve.
They're not talking about that, right? They're talking about this, "Oh, they're, they're, they're single parents. There's something wrong. And, and, um, they're Indigenous. They're, they're at risk. These kids are at..." Like, this savior complex so that that narration on the outsider, like, "We have to save these kids."
And y- you're not going to communities by saying, "Could..." You know, if the, if the family is struggling for whatever reason, is there community support? There was none of that. There was no family support workers. If the parents spoke their language, like my mom, Cree, um, there was no family support or court support or a narration of, "Do you know what you're signing?"
So there was papers in front of you, "Sign here." So there was a lot of, um, I would say shifty , shifty, uh, a- and, and knowing. So they would involve the, the, the authorities, usually the RCMP or the local police. So if the, this concept of this unfit parent with children, and they would go in, and they would literally pick the children up And that's what I remember, picking us up on the side of a dirt road.
Why we were on the dirt road, I don't know. Maybe we were playing outside. I don't really... Like, you know, um, I was, I was the sibling. I was, uh, two and a half, and I had siblings watching me. You know, my s- my oldest sibling is 12 years older than me, so it's not like we were neglected. But in Canada's terms, we were neglected.
But they're not talking about the impoverishment, and impoverishment means, like, nobody wants to be purposely viewed as poor. But the impoverishment that is placed in front of you by saying you have lack of food, you have lack of resources, lack of housing, lack of funding, lack of healthcare, but they're not talking about the funding or the im- impoverishment that goes to that, towards that.
So the societal norm of thinking there's something wrong, and we have to save, the savior complex, which, you know, still kind of gets narrated. "Oh, y- you're just a whole bunch of kids, and you were all alone. You were abandoned." Like, I still hear that, and I'm just like, there's certain reasons why today as the adult I am, um, I have boundaries with certain peoples.
And, uh, sometimes it's just like, it's 2026. You gotta catch up and really find out the bigger truth because, you know, you're gonna miss a lot. And when you're talking about oppressive practices, you're gonna miss a lot, and you're not even calling out your own bias. You're not even calling out your own internal racism that back in the '60s or '70s was termed okay, and even back then it wasn't okay.
It's 2026. You gotta catch up now. And if we're speaking and we're, we're, we're telling you what our experiences was, you cannot come back and say, "Oh, that didn't happen." Well, it did because you have an abundance of survivors of different eras, Indian residential school, day school, tuberculosis, forced relocation, im- um, uh, ones that, uh, uh, either gave up their status or lost their status, um, and the, the racism that accompanied that, um, to the '60s scoop, to the millennium scoop.
Like, that's where residential school was, they say, for, from, uh, prior to, uh, confederation in 1867. There was residential schools from back then. So they talk about, you know, the residential school system being in, in the, in the territories for, like, over 125 years. Child welfare started in 1951, and we're in 2026.
We're almost at 75 years now. That child welfare has been impacting. So are we gonna be the equivalent of all those children in care being higher than the residential school era? Like, are we gonna s- s- like succeed of children in care? And they're still apprehending our kids too. That attitude of they're single, they're alone, they're neglectful, like that whole narration as opposed to now at least we have more community care, we have more resource, we have more court support, we have more knowledge.
But there's still these systems in place that still, um, follow the narration of, uh, mass apprehension, and social workers, um, continuing to, uh, remove our children with, uh, little justification. You know, it's really important that these systematic assumptions, um, um, really undo that, you know, if you're Indigenous, you're unfit.
It's really important. So when I'm, when I'm explaining it, I, I, I always say, "You know, I've said it so many times," and I always like, "I don't wanna get cynical, I don't wanna get sarcastic, um, but I also want you to be informed so that you are, you are also taking the lead too." Because you can't just say, "Oh, now I've, now I know, check mark, and I never have to ask about it ever again."
No, it actually needs to come up because we were raised in the city. We might have been going to your school. We might have gone to your hospital. We might have gone to your shopping mall because we were raised in the city. So it's really important that you know that we're a part of your community. And then you have the narration of, why does my friend who's, um, uh, European descent have an Indigenous sibling?
Like, why aren't, why aren't you asking that? Like, how did that get to be? Like, why is there an acceptance of, well, of course that non-Indigenous family is raising that. Like, why are we accepting that narration? That's the narration that doesn't really come up. So, like when I was going to high school, everybody knew that my sibling was white, and I was going to a white high school, and there was only maybe five or six of us that were Indigenous or Inuit, and then the rest of people of color, there was about a third.
So, you know, you see the, the narration of, of the prominent community, um, not asking a lot of questions, and a lot of people think that they're smart. But
Amy T.: they're not asking a lot of questions. No, we get smarter by asking questions, right? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but as you say, without adding to the extraction that indigenous people have already faced, we, we can look to people like yourself without actually putting that labor on you, because you have a website.
Uh-huh. You have an Instagram. Yeah. You have all of these resources that people can go and seek out- Yeah ... without putting any additional- Yeah ... labor on you, and that's just you. There are millions of other indigenous authors, artists, creators, speakers who are, who are also- Well, we do a- ... doing this work.
Elaine: Yeah, we do a Sixties Scoop trauma-informed training.
Like, you wanna work with Sixties Scoop survivors? Let's go. Right? And then, and, and it's called Rising Together: Sixties Scoop Trauma Informed Training, and it's on our webpage under the Sixties Scoop Network. You know? Yes. And it's talking about, you know, what to expect, how trauma, trauma affects the nervous system, how to identify, examine your own bias, uh, and approach your work, um, tools to challenge, um, community building, vicarious trauma, im- importance of self-care, and how to create safer and inclusive spaces.
And it's working with all workers anywhere that, um, are, um, working with, uh, survivors, but specifically identifying, are you working with Sixties Scoop survivors? 'Cause if you are, how are you doing?
Amy T.: Tell us more about the Sixties Scoop Network. I mean, let me say, listeners, this interview, Elaine has very graciously agreed to sit down with me in part because this conversation is part of Our Missing Witch's annual reparations fundraiser, and a great place to put your reparation is the Sixties Scoop Network.
I believe it's sixtiesscoopnetwork.org. Yes. That's correct. A- and there's a button there where you can find- Yeah ... to make a donation. Yeah. But tell our listeners about the Sixties Scoop Network and what made you found this project.
Elaine: Well, we're a small group of, um, survivors, specifically Sixties Scoop survivors from child welfare.
We're indigenous, and we are, uh, dedicated to reconnecting or aligning within culture, ceremony, healing, and building community with other survivors. Um, myself and Roxy Cardinal, that previously went by, uh, Colleen Cardinal, but now is, uh, name changed and, uh, goes by Roxy, and- We were sitting around the table with, uh, a late friend, uh, former, former, uh, named, uh, Leslie Bob, and another friend, Beverly.
And the four of us met for coffee, and there was a, a report that came out from, uh, Manitoba through Eric Robinson, uh, the MP, and he was doing a round table, and that was the first time people started talking about the '60s scoop in about 2013, '14. And they were doing a round table, and I was just like, "Oh, my goodness," like, "What is this about?"
Like, how did he choose? Like, how come ... Like, we're not being told, you know? And that, that place of feeling really disconnect. And, and, uh, people, you know, we were all kinda like c- cons- um, comforting each other, you know, 'cause survivors comfort each other when we get triggered. And, uh, it was really beautiful.
And then, then we just kinda like, "Well, let's do a gathering of our own." And so we did. We did, uh, the first gathering of our own in 2014, and I'd never done, um, anything like that. And thank goodness Roxy knew, uh, and Leslie Bob, and, and Beverly knew different parts of organization stuff. And we're very grassroots.
Like, we did karaoke. We did, like, silent auctions, and we had a lot of help from the non-Indigenous, um, supports and, and, uh, unions to say, "You wanna do it? Sure. Let's, let's see how you can do it." And, uh, we had it over there in the Ottawa region in the small community called Vanier. We had a little sacred fire.
We did talking circles. We just, we said, "If you can make it here," 'cause we didn't have a lot of funding, uh, "we'll provide some food. We'll provide some transportation. We'll provide each other as survivors." And, um, it was a two-day gathering, and, uh, it went really well. And then you never think ahead completely 'cause you're so focused on getting the task at hand done.
And as the survivors, and we were, you know, closing it up and finishing up, and we had a giveaway, and there's music and drumming, and, um, people were like, "Okay. See you next year." And we were like, "What? Next year?" And, and, uh, Roxy's like, "Yeah. Okay, let's do next year, but let's do it on the land next year." You know?
That was the bigger thing, right? Like, how do we get back to the land that we were apprehended from? How do we get back to the bush or the waters or the, the- You know, not so city, you know? And, and so we did. We did a, a, a healing camp, you know, and, and I think that's the bigger conversation, where these healing camps are coming forward, but they're making them specific to survivor-led.
And so we've had a few healing camps since, and again, specifically for survivors of the Sixties Scoop, or family members, or, um, the children, the children that were raised by the survivors. And, um, the last one, uh, that we had was, uh, one for mapping, like, where did we go? So we've done, if you go to YouTube, under our, our YouTube site, we have the, um, we have narration of Sixties Scoop survivors, uh, talking about their, their, their, um, what do they call that?
The, their migration story, like from when they were little, to adopted, to fostered, to adopted, or brought back and adopted again. Some were taken to the States. Some were taken to England. Some were, like for myself, I was raised in a family, and for a short time I was raised in Africa. You know, like there's all these different, like, how did we get all the way over here when we're originally from a very small community?
And then if you go to our page, um, we have, uh, one called Mapping the Sixties Scoop Dysphoria, so you can see where survivors have gone. Um, and on our webpage, we also talk about our Dibwiwin, which is Speaking From Our Heart podcast. So we have all these different, um, we're growing it up, too. You know, we're, we're doing new podcasts.
We're doing new, um, uh, options, legal options. Uh, but we started off very small, and, uh, we started off, uh, um, thinking, oh, okay, well, it'll just be just gatherings, just connect, you know, 'cause at that time, I believe there had h- only been one gathering in Canada, and that had been a few years before. But, you know, what happens is this perception of, um, well, we talked about the Indian residential school, so we don't have to talk about anything else.
But what you're missing is the grandchildren and their children. What happened to their children? What happened to their grandchildren? What happened to their great-grandchildren? And that narration of how were you affected, and people seem, seem to go, "Well, we talked about residential school. We don't need to talk about anything else."
And that's the part that's being missed because there seems to be this, um- Beautiful abundance of our survivors from Indian Residential School. They had their time and their voice and, and, and it was narrated and, and, uh, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission came out of it, and there was conversations about our missing and murdered in there, and, and their grandchildren and the, the loss, right?
And we get it. That was heavy. But our part is still heavy, too, so it needs its, its rightful place to, to be spoken of. It can't be just swept away because you spoke about that era, and you don't need to speak about anything more. So there seems to be this, uh, concept of, um, the aftercare of loss. You know, like what about when, when, when does, does the voice of the Sixties Scoop, um, have its time?
And there was settlement, too. There was a settlement that came through in 19... Oh, when was that? '20... Like 2019, 2018, it started, and then it went through during COVID, which, you know, finally got... Like, there was o- other things that were happening during COVID when the world shut down, but they started doing the settlement payout and there seems to be this like, "Well, we paid you.
We don't ever have to talk about it ever again." But there's still needed conversation. So, um, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's always this where do you get the funding for healing? Where do you get the funding that's self-sustaining that isn't specifically just for you? Like, how do you get the ones from overseas?
How do we find the ones that have been buried, that had their name changed and we don't know their names now because their names have been English-ed through their adoption records? And how do we unseal the adoption records? How do we unseal the foster care system? Because our generation, it was a lot of retraction.
And how do we out the ongoing, um, healing, the, the unique healing that is specifically for survivors specific of this generation? You know, 'cause it... If you're trying to explain everything to a therapist or a psychotherapist or whoever, or even ceremony conductors that know just- Their experience has just been working with Indian residential school survivors.
But they did talk about us on reserve. They were like, "Oh, those children that left," or, "Oh, that parent that left." And that shame that child welfare still has in our territories and communities, that shame of, oh, we don't talk about it. You know, it'll bring up their stuff. You're right. But we're adults now.
We're d- we're- we're- we're parents, we're grandparents, we're great-grandparents, and we're like, "You know what? I'll bring it up now." Mm-hmm. And then when survivors, we all bring it up, we're like, "Oh, okay. Other people get what I went through." Or, uh, you know, maybe I heard something that encourages me to speak up because there's, there...
You know, and that's the, the joy of being validated. You know, the validation of, um, I wasn't the only one. I'm not the only one. You know, and when survivors come together, there's a, there's, um, an empowerment. And you're right, we all come with our stuff, and sometimes we might, you know, have a kink or two, which happens.
And, you know, um, we don't mean to cause any harm, but that's clarity and clarifying and understanding. You know, like, some people are in culture, some people aren't. Some people are in business, some people are in financing. Some people, it's hard for their, uh, recognition that you're in- you're indigenous.
Like, I'm Cree. Like, I'm all Cree. I'm... You know? And some, some have gone home. Some are still getting the strength to go home, 'cause of that forced isolation when we were being raised by non-indigenous community, non-indigenous home, uh, loss of language, um, this attitude or this, um, atmosphere of you weren't wanted, you were neglected.
There was something wrong with your parent. That narration. There was something wrong, so you wouldn't wanna go back there, you know? And that narration of good Indian, bad Indian. You're one of the good ones- Mm ... because you were raised here. And it's just like, you know what? I wanna be raised there, too. So there's this longing, this grief, this unresolved grief or you don't even know what you're grieving sometimes.
And so it's just that even the reassurance of validation, it's okay to not know what you're grieving, but you're, you're grieving something, and it's all inside, and I believe you.
Amy T.: I'm so grateful that you have this bravery and capacity to do this work. I'm so happy that you're podcasting, because I remember last year you had told me that this was a goal, to start doing this, and for you to be able to spread your voice farther than Ottawa, farther than Canada, and reach those ears that really need to hear you.
And you, you mentioned, you've brought it up several different ways, and it's something I really wanted to talk to you about, the loss of name, loss of language. Um, you are Cree Girl on Instagram. Everybody go follow Elaine at Cree Girl on Instagram. But something I've noticed you've been doing a lot of is this, like, re- rematriation, like, this reclaiming of what I believe is your mother's language.
Intro: Mm-hmm.
Amy T.: So I guess my question is twofold. Like, um, w- why is language important, and how does language fit into the creation or the destruction, the erasure, the extraction of culture itself?
Elaine: Well, I'm originally a Cree speaker. My first language is Cree. Everything I heard from womb to baby to toddler, it was all enmeshed in Cree.
And I know there was probably some English in there, but I was fully Cree. To then go to homes, I went to five homes, to be Englished within those five homes, to get to the adopted home by the time I was just under four, to not be speaking English or Cree anymore. I just stopped speaking. And there was no one explaining at such a little age, "You're losing your language.
You're losing your connection. You're grieving your sisters. You're grieving your mother. You're grieving your homelands. You're grieving being held safely."
So as I, as I open the grief, I recognize I'm still vulnerable when I speak my language. And I don't speak it in conversation. I speak it in song. So I've brought language back to me in song, and now with the joy of internet, uh, my husband and I sometimes go on the, the different platforms, and we say different things.
'Cause I was just like, you know what? Maybe other people wanna do that, too. Maybe other people wanna hear that, or just be encouraging. You know? Um, not everybody has different ages and stages of, of peoples in their life. So maybe you needed to hear that from a grandparent or a parent, that I'm proud of you, and say it in the language.
And I'm not saying I, I, I, I say it correctly either. But I know more, like, I, I took in a lot of the territory of the Algonquin and the Anishinaabemowin. I am Cree, so I- my Cree is totally different than the language of over here. But I've been here such a long time that it feels like home. And I, I can pick up a little bit more in Anishinaabemowin than I can of my own language.
So there's still a, there's still a, this concept of once you go home, you'll learn your language, and it'll all be better. Like there, like these quick and easy, um, um, happy endings, and I'm still working on my language, and I'm still working on how to sing my language back to me. I'm, I'm just constantly trying to sing songs, um, and get the d- dialect properly, make sure that I know the, know the, the translation.
Um, I speak to other elders in other territories that are s- and it's just like, you know, "Sing it to me," you know? "Sing it so that I can listen to it over and over." And I think that's, that's that place of, of, um, inherent right memory. Inherent right memory related to it's our inherent right to know our language, know our song, know our prayer, know our, um, kinship, know, um, uh, the language that loved you because it didn't, it didn't always, um...
It wasn't always, um, said in English. But when we say it in our language, it's very, um, home, like I'm home. Like, it's like, you know, you get the proper tone. So when, when, like when my older sister speaks to me or a, a relative speaks to me and they'll say something, I'm just like, "That just feels like home."
Like my niece, my niece will sometimes say to me, um, "I got you, Auntie." And I'm like, "I didn't know I needed to hear that. Thank you." It, that reassurance. So hold on. It- I'm just gonna, just gonna tell my husband be quiet. Just a minute. Okay. Thank you. Of course. I just, I just kicked him to the
Amy T.: kitchen.
Elaine: Oh, wow. I kicked him to the curb.
Amy T.: Give him my regards later, but yeah. Yeah. You stay in the kitchen for now. Um, um, coming home in the same way that that, that hug from that woman felt like home. Mm-hmm. Yeah. The words can feel like home, touch can feel like home.
Elaine: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, uh, I went to a, a language conference last year and, you know, you're signing up and you're all excited, and then I get there and they're all speaking Anishinaabemowin, but I didn't know enough words, and they were just, like, speaking and speaking and it kind of overwhelmed me, and I was kind of getting anxious 'cause I was, like, calling myself in.
I don't know enough, right? And then I realized, is the whole conference gonna be in Anishinaabemowin and I won't know anything while I'm here 'cause I'm so English now? But I had to really talk to myself and really self-regulate myself. It's okay not to know. It's okay just to be around the language. It's okay to be, you know, reassured by your own people.
And there's a lot of grandparents that are, like, looking at you and smiling at you, and just glad you're here, as opposed to this old narration of, I don't know enough and I have to answer because you're telling me I have to answer. Like, that old part that is scared and feeling, um, I guess not worthy, right?
And then, then the worthy, the worthfulness. You are worthful to be just amongst your people. And you're right, you were away for a, for a little while, but you're n- y- you know, like my sister will always say, "But you're home now." And that, that always, like, you know, when I was y- when I was younger, I would, like, it would catch me.
I'd, I'd feel, like, that little person cry where you couldn't catch your breath, you know? And that's that homesickness and, and she'd always reassure me, you know, she'd help me. "You're home now, sister. You're, you're, you're, you're just home now." So I guess that's that reassurance is when we're walking in and out of these different places, and when we're going to ceremonies or into community events or powwows, you know.
It's just reassuring each other, you're home now. You're here now, and we're grateful you're here now. Come back. We miss you when you're, when you're not here, you know?
Amy T.: Will you bring us home and- Maybe bring your brothers and sisters and all of your siblings all across the world, a very broad definition of the term sibling.
Will you bring us all home with a song, Elaine- Mm-hmm ... that we can listen to over and over and over again? So
Elaine: I, I used to, well, I still sometimes do, I used to, um, do certain songs specifically that they would help me breathe. 'Cause in anxiety, I'd start just upper breathing. So when I'm, um, when I'm feeling anxious, I would hum.
And, um, and then I'd, like, take a deep breath.
And then I would, like, "Okay, you're gonna be okay. You're gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay." Hama hama hama heya. "You're gonna be okay." Hama heya weha. "It's gonna be okay." Hama hama hama heya. Hama heya weha. "You're okay." Wehe heya. Weya weheya. Ha. Hama heya weha. "You're doing really well. You're gonna be okay."
And that's the, the known as, uh, uh, a grandmother song through Eulalie. So I'll sing it through without words now. Hama hama hama heya. Hama heya weha. Hama hama hama heya. Hama heya weha. Wehe heya. Weya weheya. Ha. Hama heya weha. There you
Amy T.: go.
I'm actually, like, um, tearing up a little bit and feeling a little emotional because When you were singing, like, I believed you. I believed that I was gonna be okay, and you're gonna be okay, and everyone listening, everyone who can hear your voice is gonna be okay. Like, I believed it maybe for the first time today.
Elaine: Oh. That we are
Amy T.: gonna be okay. Thank you- We're gonna be ... so much.
Elaine: You're welcome, and I appreciate, uh, you asking, the ask and the invitation. I, I really appreciate that. Of
Amy T.: course. I mean, for what it's worth, I am very proud of you and the work that you are doing, and you putting yourself out there to be a voice to reclaim the language of your mother and your grandmother, to call your brothers and sisters home.
Bijiwen, I think, is, um, the term. Bijiwen. Bijiwen. Bijiwen. Yeah.
Elaine: Yeah. Bijiwen. Or <|diarize|>Let's
Amy T.: go. Let's go. And again, listeners, please, this is someone that we know we can look into Elaine's face and know that any money that we put into the work that she's doing is good money for good work. You're not, your donation, your reparation is not gonna get lost in a sea of administration.
No. It is going- It'll- Go-
Elaine: It'll help with, uh, with our podcast. It'll help us, uh, talk to other survivors. Uh, it'll give them a little bit of honorarium. It'll help us fund maybe better mics, or maybe on the different platforms, 'cause everything is, is dollared now, right? Yes. And we're not, we're very grassroots.
Like, we, we worked for the government a little, did a little bit of contract, but we're very grassroots. We believe that, um, that, uh, that it's okay to find each other in good ways. And if, and if, and if it's through the safety of podcasting, let's podcast. If it's the safety of, uh, even going to the website and looking for referrals or legal advice, it's there at these different places.
And you have every right to, I always remind people, you have every right to call your own child welfare file home, to find out what they wrote about you. So when you write and you ask for your child welfare file, ask for your, all, all the, all of your paperwork. Even ask for your live birth certificate.
Look at your names. This is your original name that was given to you, and it was given to you with love through, from the pa- families that, that brought you here. And it's okay to walk, walk each other home.
Amy T.: I made several notes during our conversation, but the one that I wanna leave us on is you said, "Root systems are quiet work."
I appreciate you doing the blooming, the stemming and blooming above ground, but for the rest of us, we build, we build roots. We build roots. We build roots. We build roots. We build roots. We build roots and nurture and foster roots. Again, it's sixtiesscoopnetwork.org, and of course, listeners, all of the links to the podcast, the YouTube, ways to donate, and of course, your Instagram will all be on the webpage.
Thank you so much, Elaine. I hope you'll come back next year, having- Anytime ... having succeeded in your goals that you're setting now. When we return next year, I know that you'll be just cracking them out.
Elaine: Well, thank you so much, and, uh, take care of yourself. And, uh, as they say, uh, baamaapii. Uh, we don't have a word for goodbye.
We say, "We'll see each other again."
Amy T.: Baamaapii.
Elaine: Mm-hmm.
Amy T.: Thanks, Elaine.
Elaine: You're welcome. Hama hama hamaheya. You're gonna be okay. Hamaheya weha. It's gonna be okay. Hama hama hamaheya.
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